General Forums >> The Future is Here: The New Wave in Digital Calls

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Mike HarterAdministrator
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Fox Pro Problems Recharging
      #1886565 - Mon Apr 30 2007 05:55 PM

Hey Guys:

Just had a client/friend return from a Black Bear and Wolf hunt in Alaska. At my recommendation, he purchased a nice Fox Pro unit to take along which I was able to set up for him.

The problem came in recharging. Apparently, he had a generic Radio Shack charging unit along and instead of removing the batteries to charge them, he used the charging jack on the Fox Pro.

The result was a melt down of the unit. Apparently, the unit has no regulator built in to shut off charging if heat is generated. I've always seen the batteries removed to charge while switching to a reserve set, so this has not come up with me. There is apparently a charging unit available from Fox Pro at additional cost which prevents the problem.

In any case, for those of you carrying Fox Pros, it sounds prudent not to charge the batteries in the machine with another after market charging unit. Initial conversations between my client and Fox Pro have not been too encouraging. They have, apparently, seen this before, and they are not inclined to be too sympathetic. They want some money to fix it, how much is as yet unclear.

Word to the wise.

Thanks

--------------------
"If you need a pistol, you need a REAL pistol. The finest available 9mm serves best as a badge of office." ..... Col. J. Cooper


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DanS
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Mike Harter]
      #1886566 - Mon Apr 30 2007 06:48 PM

Mike I'd like to go one step futher.

It's to my understanding that one should take the battery pack out of the foxpro unit whether you have the FoxPro Charger or another brands. Obviously leaving the wires connected.


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Mike HarterAdministrator
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: DanS]
      #1886598 - Tue May 01 2007 11:33 AM

Dan:

I believe you are correct. I'm told there is a warning somewhere in their literature to leave the battery cover door open or off during charging to help dissipate heat.

I don't own one personally yet, so can't say. I'm still functioning well on a like new 512 and an MP3 unit with Power Pro I've had for quite a while. Maybe if I had the chance to call more, I'd step up. I like the Fox Pro units now, but there's always some fly in the ointment.

Ken's charging set-up is the best I've seen, but it didn't come cheap.

--------------------
"If you need a pistol, you need a REAL pistol. The finest available 9mm serves best as a badge of office." ..... Col. J. Cooper


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Ken (Catskin)Administrator
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Mike Harter]
      #1886614 - Tue May 01 2007 05:37 PM

Yeah but with the digital cameras and everything else that eats AA's now days it was worth it. I think Dan is using the same thing.

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DanS
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Ken (Catskin)]
      #1886617 - Tue May 01 2007 06:38 PM

Ken,
You always seem to be at least one step ahead of me with the electronic do-whacky-do's. But yea, I have an additional charger, the one you reccomended.


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Quapaw9300
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Mike Harter]
      #1887622 - Sun Jul 01 2007 02:39 PM


I've melted not one but two FX3s down and almost lost a truck when one scorched the seat and filled the truck with smoke.

The second time my replacement FX3 went into melt down and we caught it because of the smell of melting plastic.

The issue is the heat that is created as the 8 AA alkaline batteries charge. It gets very hot, hot enough to melt plastic and char seats. Batteries boil.

Both times FoxPro was very johnny on the spot with either repairs or a replacement. I was impressed. Then I started hearing about other FX3s doing the same thing.

I suspect that the company wants to avoid a recall but there is a simple solution they should at least consider. It's called a thermistor ( a temperature sensitive switch ) and it could be molded into a replacement battery case. At a predetermined temperature it would 'open' and turn off the recharging current. This is how the 2 way radio companies like GE and Motorola protect their portable radios from the same heat that occurs when their nicad batteries heat up. My cell phone has a simular feature inside it too.

I want to stress that the folks at FoxPro are very good to deal with when people have problems with their units. I hope they recognize this and do something to correct the safety issue at no cost to their followers and loyal customers.

I'm sorry for the long essay but I'll end it by saying I check my FX every 15 or 20 minutes to see if the AA batteries are too hot.

Let's get 'er fixed


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Quapaw9300
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Quapaw9300]
      #1887623 - Sun Jul 01 2007 02:54 PM

I offer this as an addendum to my fresh post about 2 FX3's I've melted down.

FoxPro's owners know that if the problem gets big enough the Consumer Product Safety folks might intervene and order something done. That would be very expensive and it would be unfortunate because FoxPro has a winner on it's hands that has an unfortunate little flaw.



--------------------
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." John Wayne


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disco1946
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Quapaw9300]
      #1887952 - Sun Jul 29 2007 03:56 PM

Thanks for the info. I was gonna buy a charger but Now I think I will just stick with the AA alkalines. 36 for about 11 bucks at Home Depot. I change them before every hunt and have never had them go dead during a hard day of hunting.

Dave

--------------------
Friends don't let Friends shoot Rugers


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NcWhitetail
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: disco1946]
      #1887960 - Sun Jul 29 2007 07:51 PM

It's an unfortunate little flaw until it burns a house down.

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DanCarey
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: NcWhitetail]
      #1887976 - Mon Jul 30 2007 04:36 PM

I had heard the 110 V charger was ok as it comes from FP, but the auto 12 V adapter was a problem. I have a FP, don't get much use, but has been charged several times without a problem (heat). Never used the auto charger.

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LBLDOG68
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Mike Harter]
      #1889462 - Wed Nov 07 2007 10:34 AM

thanks for info on the recharging with batteries left in! I dont know if I would have done that but I know now I wont!!THANKS

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Wapati
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: LBLDOG68]
      #1889934 - Thu Nov 29 2007 11:30 PM

I have never had a problem with the 110v Foxpro charger but I could see how universal chargers could cause a problem. Foxpro absolutely recommends the battery door be open when charging and states to not charge the batteries more than 10 hrs with the Foxpro 110v charger. Mine makes them nice and warm to the touch but never hot. I have had zero luck with regular alkaline batteries the time or two I have used them. My unit eats them in no time flat. I dont use the vehicle fast charge system with mine since I carry around another set of fully charged rechargeables if the one set gets low. Rarely ever happens but good to have a backup.

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Quapaw9300
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Wapati]
      #1890391 - Sat Dec 15 2007 09:27 PM

I just checked back on my earlier posts and I realize that I hadn't made it clear that I was using a cigarette lighter charger, not the A/C wall charger.

And I want to mention that the new FoxPro Scorpion caller has a smart charging circuit built in. I've taken to carrying two battery boxes, both nicad and both charged so that I don't have to sweat plugging it into the cigarette lighter.

Radio Shack has the black plastic battery boxes and it's just a matter of charging them at home.

--------------------
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." John Wayne


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Mike HarterAdministrator
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Mike Harter]
      #1891357 - Wed Jan 16 2008 10:56 AM

Just heard from my client again yesterday.

Apparently FoxPro has acknowledged the problem with the excess heat on charging. They are now providing a safety feature which shuts the unit down if too much heat is present. Apparently, they will retro-fit older units with this new safety wiring if the unit is returned.

So says my source. I haven't spoken to FoxPro personally.

--------------------
"If you need a pistol, you need a REAL pistol. The finest available 9mm serves best as a badge of office." ..... Col. J. Cooper


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Mark PAdministrator
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Mike Harter]
      #1891393 - Thu Jan 17 2008 01:03 PM

My Western Rivers is pissing me off, so I was wandering through the FoxPro site.

The FX5 with the gel external battery looks like the ticket. The battery appears to be 8Ah @ 12v. Not sure what the FX5 specs out to as far as draw, but 8Ah should be fine. If not one could boost the battery capacity with another model. That one tips the scale at 6lbs, so I don't think I'd want much more weight. I've got enough crap to carry. Whether or not an FX3 can be converted to use this I don't know,as the text was unclear if it currently supports it.

Speed charging batteries is a huge knock on overall lifespan. If the batteries are getting warm or even hot, then they're gassing. That's bad enough, but being sealed batteries the gas (hydrogen) can't escape and it starts compounding.

Best thing is a long, float charge, unless there is a controller that can do bulk charge and drop to float once the batteries are peaked.

--------------------
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.


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Ken (Catskin)Administrator
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Mark P]
      #1891396 - Thu Jan 17 2008 02:53 PM

RE; Fast Charging.

Thats not quite true, at least for nickel-based batteries which prefer a fast-charge. Trickle charges cause memory so they should be fast charged. It takes about an hour to recharge my Foxpro with the nickel-metal-hydride batteries. I use a real charger and not the built in junk. Battery life has not been a problem.

See http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-11.htm


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disco1946
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Mark P]
      #1891406 - Thu Jan 17 2008 07:27 PM

Mark,

I have a friend who has the gel pack battery that works on the FX3 caller. He seldom uses it cause it is so heavy. You can easily get a full day calling or more on the 8 AA batteries. They actually rate it at 16 hours on full power, I don't know about that but I have never had it go dead on me on a full day or weekend hunt.

Dave

--------------------
Friends don't let Friends shoot Rugers


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Quapaw9300
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Quapaw9300]
      #1893174 - Thu May 22 2008 04:38 PM

Well, here I am again talking about FoxPro and my FX3. Earlier in this same forum I've spoken out about problems I've had with my FX3. Mr. Dillon and his staff have completely satisfied me to date .

And today my FX3 came back from their shop in Lewistown PA after being serviced. They not only changed the oil and filter, the spark plug and checked it's tire pressure, they did a number of upgrades including a small device * that can help keep the FX3 from melting down in it's charging mode.

Folks, this is how FoxPro has kept it's customers and if you were ever thinking about buying an electronic then I can recommend FoxPro.

* thermistor

Jeff

--------------------
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." John Wayne


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Blueprinted
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Quapaw9300]
      #1894139 - Fri Sep 19 2008 08:54 PM

I stored my FX3 over the summer and it got damp. I phucked the caller up. I live about 1 and 1/2 hours from them. I took it in today 9/19/08. They replaced everything but the case and the speakers, upgraded it to an FX5 and I was out the door in just over an hour. They told me my unit has a thermistor in it. I bought the Nickle metal hydrid batteries and the charger. I only paid for the upgrade and batteries and got a brand new caller. Shit happens, but I think they are one of the best, customer oriented companies out there, not just e-callers.

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Quapaw9300
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Blueprinted]
      #1894291 - Fri Oct 10 2008 07:10 PM

Yes they are.

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Charliebee
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Quapaw9300]
      #1895692 - Sun Feb 22 2009 04:50 PM

Quote:

I just checked back on my earlier posts and I realize that I hadn't made it clear that I was using a cigarette lighter charger, not the A/C wall charger.




nah, we just thought you had a really long extension cord to almost burn up the seat in the truck while charging the FP, or were too lazy to take the unit in the house to charge it...


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John-HenryAdministrator
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Quapaw9300]
      #1895694 - Mon Feb 23 2009 01:57 PM

I agree with you boys, but they're really just following in the footsteps of Johnny Stewart (before the name was sold to H.S. and things started to go South rather badly).

I shipped a 512 back to Waco once because even after we tried to trouble-shoot it over the phone we just couldn't make it work, and when I got it back in a few days it had been completely cleaned and refurbished and upgraded with the latest bells and whistles (not that the 512 ever underwent many upgrades, because it was pretty much perfect just it's inception) and in addition to that there was a Zip-Loc bag partially filled with sand and Airedale hair and insect parts and mesquite leaves and thorns and a half-dozen different kinds of grass seeds and a few pebbles and gawd knows what else, plus a hand-written note from Gerald Stewart advising me that I should be more careful in the future, because if some entity like the U.S. Fish and Wildlife ever discovered what I was transporting across State lines inside of my 512 I'd probably be facing some steep fines and possibly jail time for the importation of noxious weeds and the murder of threatened or endangered insects, among other things.

I laughed until I had tears running down my face, but I was secretly impressed; it's not every company whose President and C.E.O. takes the time to write a personal note to a customer, even if it did contain a pretty pointed little barb.

But that was Johnny Stewart and Gerald; if FoxPro is emulating that same standard of customer care it's little wonder that they're as successful as they are, because as one of those other impeccably crafted technically advanced highly-priced electronic calls demonstrated it doesn't matter how high your standard of Quality Control and Quality Assurance are; if you treat your customers badly you won't be around long, and even after you're gone folks will say bad things about you.

John-Henry

--------------------
Tin andra, tin eroa, tina theon?


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DanS
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: John-Henry]
      #1895695 - Mon Feb 23 2009 02:40 PM

I have been reading this thread a little now and then, and I have had a few, well quite a lot of problems with a Foxpro e-caller "now and then". Predominately when I would hunt in AZ.

About a week and a half ago, I made a remark about my displeasure with a particular FX3 unit on another forum. Mike Dillon sent me his cell phone number and asked me to call. So I did. We talked about the issue and other things e-caller related. He sounded sincerely concerned.

Now to cut closer to the chase, he promised to send me a newer model which is also a substantial upgrade, with the promise that if I wasn't happy, I could send it back and get which ever unit I wanted, at no additional charge, just to make things, "right".

Hopefully the new caller will come in this week, so I can get to use it a few times before I stop for this year.

I know many people are quick to announce faults and problems, but when a company does something nice, it often gets overlooked.

so, there you go.


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Mike HarterAdministrator
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: DanS]
      #1895700 - Mon Feb 23 2009 04:56 PM

Too true pal.

I was struggling with a Hornady die last week; seems the set I bought for the Swift had the wrong seater die included. After wrestling with it, I jotted off an email with a WASSUP? Got a return email next morning and a new die body, no charge, in return mail in time for the weekend loading session. Good service makes up for the occasional production screw up every time in my book. No questions; no excuses; just satisfy the customer.

Wish more redheads were like that.

--------------------
"If you need a pistol, you need a REAL pistol. The finest available 9mm serves best as a badge of office." ..... Col. J. Cooper


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Ken (Catskin)Administrator
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Mike Harter]
      #1895701 - Mon Feb 23 2009 05:41 PM

>>Wish more redheads were like that.

Lou has a few choice words for you...


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Mike HarterAdministrator
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Ken (Catskin)]
      #1895705 - Tue Feb 24 2009 09:54 AM



--------------------
"If you need a pistol, you need a REAL pistol. The finest available 9mm serves best as a badge of office." ..... Col. J. Cooper


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John-HenryAdministrator
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: DanS]
      #1895706 - Wed Feb 25 2009 07:56 AM

Since this is turning into a Customer Service/Satisfaction thread, I thought that I would mention my all-time favorite customer service story.

There is a short list of outfits that I've personally dealt with that place a premium on customer care and satisfaction; Leupold and Tri-Tronics spring quickly to mind among others, but the shortest sweetest guarantee that I've ever seen comes from Mike Dillon at Dillon Precision; Mike calls it his "no bullshit" guarantee, and it simply says that,

"If a Dillon product fails, we'll repair or replace it free of charge."

Period. End of conversation.

I bought my first Dillon press back in the '80's, before they were available in any retail outlets, so I drove to Prescott (five hours North) and wandered into the little old "store" that they had tied onto the side of the manufacturing plant, and since there were some other folks in there I contented myself with prowling around and looking at the display models that were mounted here and there while I waited my turn.

And of course I was listening, and time after time I heard people approach that counter and state their case in a more or less defensive tone; usually they'd made some mistake or other that had resulted in something breaking, and you could just tell that they were pretty sure that whatever it was that they had done wasn't going to be covered by the warranty, and that they were going to have to pay money to correct their mistakes.

And time after time I watched those helpful friendly guys in the blue shirts with "Dillon Precision" printed on them explain what had gone wrong, step back into the stock room, emerge with the replacement part(s), hand 'em over with a smile, and go on to the next fella, and there was never a mention of a single cent in charges of any kind.

One guy in particular had overtraveled his ram and torn up his cam that connected the handle to the compound mechanism that provides the torque to re-size the bigger stuff, and he was really on the muscle when he stepped up; he knew damned right well that he'd done something wrong, and he was probably a little bit embarrassed on top of being wrong, but they explained to him what he'd done, told him how to correct it by spacing the die and the shell holder correctly, and then gave him SIX of those links, and told him that they were throwing in a few extra just in case he had a little bit of trouble getting the hang of things, so that if he broke another one or two links he wouldn't have to make another drive.

That guy went out of there with a grin and a far-away look in his eyes, and I'm pretty sure that he's using Dillon stuff to this day, but all of the foregoing is just a setup for the real story that follows.

Some of your older guys may remember this, because it happened a few years back, but apparently some monkey with a sense of humor had his reloading setup in a garage or shed or some other structure (perhaps even his house, although it seems like it wasn't a dwelling place) but in any event it caught fire and burned to the ground, and his Dillon reloader turned into a twisted hunk of discolored metal; it was still recognizably a press, but it looked like something that Salvador Dali might have painted, and it sure wasn't ever going to reload another round of ammo.

The owner, though, with that sense of humor that he apparently possessed, bethought himself of Mike's guarantee, and (doubtless with a big grin on his face) boxed up the charred remnants of the press and shipped it back to Dillon with a note explaining that it didn't work any more, and that as a result he was expecting that they'd send him a new one so that he could get back to making ammo before too much longer.

And then he doubtless set back and grinned some more when he thought about what their reaction might be, but I'll bet that his grin slipped a little when the UPS man showed up a few days later with a brand new press and all the bells and whistles to make it work just like the old one had; Mike included a note himself, and he told the fella that he had done the right thing to send it back; it obviously didn't work any more, and Dillon was happy to replace it, FREE OF CHARGE.



Of course Dillon made a few million dollars more as an incidental result because they used that press in an advertising campaign for a while, but nonetheless Mike made good on the warranty, which I'm pretty sure most manufacturers wouldn't have done.

There are some good companies out there when it comes to customer service, but there aren't any that are any better than Dillon.

John-Henry

--------------------
Tin andra, tin eroa, tina theon?


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Mark PAdministrator
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: John-Henry]
      #1895720 - Fri Feb 27 2009 07:48 AM

I've had good service from Dillon as well. My old man called me and said his cousin Stanley was selling some 'gun stuff' at the family reunion and one item was a blue reloading press. The guy Stanley got it from bought it years ago from someone else thinking it was a shotshell reloader. Turned out to be a 550, so he crammed it in the box and put it in the closet. I told him to buy it and ship it since it was a ridiculously low price. When it showed up I was giddy, but soon realized after I compared it to the picture in the catalog I was missing a lot of pieces.

I put it together as best I could, but it wasn't looking right and I didn't have a manual, so before I got into a bind I figured I'd just have it done up right. I trundled up to Scottsdale to the Dillon store and laid the thing on the counter. What I had was a 550A and they'd since came out with the 550B, plus there was some other things missing. The clerk took the press to examine it, then started piling boxes of stuff on the counter. Everything necessary to upgrade the machine and replace the pieces parts. I asked how much I owed and he told me "no charge". I was pleasantly surprised seeing that this was an old model press and I didn't even know who the original owner was.

Of course they got my money anyway. If you walk into Dillon expecting to spend $100 you're going to spend it on something and after the goodies start to pile up the budget goes out the window.

--------------------
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.


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gordy99
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Re: Fox Pro Problems Recharging [Re: Mike Harter]
      #1895970 - Fri Mar 27 2009 09:28 PM

Hey Guys: As an old RC Aircraft guy I have many chargers. I use my RC charger to charge my Foxpro fury battery's and never a problem. A good RC charger for aircraft (not those little cheap park flyers) will charge the batteries at the right rate of charge and will shut off or switch to trickel when proper levels are reached. Of course a charger that's worth a hoot is costing about $70 - $80 nowadays. If anybody want s more info on these chargers let me know an I'll post makes and model. The best one I have charges Ni-cad , Nickelmedal, and lipo. Thats my 2 cents.

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