This Page has generated a tremendous amount of interest and e-mail since we placed it on the Web, and I've tried to answer the questions as they come in. Instead of re-writing the same information again and again, or forwarding a previous e-mail in answer to a current inquiry, we will begin to post questions and answers in this section for the benefit of all visitors. This should not be construed to mean that we are not accepting and answering questions that we receive from now on, merely that you may save us both time if you can find the answer to your question among these responses.

As you will notice, the names have been deleted to protect the innocent. I have done some minor editing to correct typos, etc.

John-Henry:

I live in washington state and want to start calling here. Any ideas on calling tapes or techniques for this area.

Thank you

XXXXXXX

Partner:

Read the Web page carefully, then go out and do what it says. Fool around with it for a couple of weeks, and if you don't have any luck, drop me another e-mail and tell me what you did that didn't work, and we'll see if we can come up with some ideas.

If you do call an old coyote and kill him, just keep doing whatever worked for you that time.

I'm not trying to blow you off, but until you get a little experience under your belt, we really don't have anything to talk about.

Good Hunting

John-Henry

John-Henry

O.K., it's been more than a couple of weeks. I have watched many videos and read all the information i could get. In the six stands I tried I called in 2 magpies and had some farm dogs howling. I accomplished that with a mouth call (CRIT'R . CALL standard). My electronic rig is a boom box rigged to a ten watts PA speaker the only thing it called was a few names because I had to pack it back and forth to the truck.

Do coyotes follow elk herds we ran into two to three hundred of them on our outings. How long should I call ? I averaged 30 to 40 minutes at that time I couldn't feel my lips and had slobber running down my face.

Incidentally my partner ordered the Lohman copy of the Stewart electronic call. Will that help? On two of the stands the ground was littered with coyote sign; tracks, scat, and scent markings. Any suggestions?

XXXXXXXX

Partner:

I usually make three to six stands in a morning, when I'm just fooling around, depending on how long it takes to travel from one location to the next. Down here the sky is usually clear, and the sun heats up enough by 10:00 a.m. that coyotes will not move much.

I almost always let the call run for a full 1/2 hour (the length of the tape).

This is the thing, though; sometimes I kill three or four coyotes in a morning, and sometimes I don't see a damned thing. I usually manage to call one or two, but they are thick down here.

Coyotes move around the country for no good reason, and if you land in the middle of a family group moving through you can stack them up, but if they left that part of the world yesterday you might be out of luck.

Vic and I called 14 coyotes in a morning a couple of weeks ago, and another friend of mine and I hunted the exact same stands 5 days later and didn't call a thing. Because Vic and I were filming that day, we only fired one shot, so we didn't kill out the ones that we saw. They had just shifted off for some reason, and gone to the other side of the valley, or whatever.

Calling, especially when you are starting out, takes patience. Like lots of other things, the more that you do it, the easier it gets.

If you are calling birds, that's good, especially in open country. Down here we get ravens that circle the call from time to time, and that adds a visual stimulation for any coyote in the area. It's gotten to the point that they show up, and we tighten up, knowing that if a coyote sees them (and they can see a long way here in the desert country) he's most likely going to put it in high gear and get to the table.

Coyotes don't take elk, as a general rule, although they are opportunists, and they'll hang around anything that they think might be weak enough to eat. I don't think that they will follow elk herds at this time of year, though, unless you are experiencing a heavy winter kill, and they are just waiting for one to go down.

In calving season, when new calves and afterbirth are on the ground, it might be a different story.

Go forth and call more, paying attention to the terrain and the breeze, and sooner or later an old coyote is going to show up.

Good Hunting

John-Henry

John-Henry:

Great page.

My buddy and I have just started calling here in Pahrump, NV last year. Although we have yet to harvest any dogs, except for a road kill we found one night, we're still at it. Most of the problem we had/have was calling.

Everybody sugested short calls wait 10 min and repeat, a few months later a friend from NY said just blow the #%*! out of it. One morning I did just that and called in a bobcat, it appeared 45 yards in front of me, inside a sage brush. Had i not been hunting with coyotes with my bow I might have got a shot off, leaving the stand I found several dog tracks and steaming scat. I did'nt even know they were behind me.

Your page is very informative, my new info will be practiced religiously.

One other call I just recently heard about, but have not tried, is hanging a cotton tail/ jack by its hind legs so its front legs barley touch the ground and let her scream. Just food for thought.

XXXXX

Partner:

Glad that you found some tips on the Page. You ought to have plenty of coyotes up there; it's just a matter of getting them in front of the gun.

As far as hanging the rabbit goes, Vic and I have tried about every way that you can think of to fool a coyote, but I'm here to tell you that one is better left alone.

First of all you have to get your hands on the rabbit, which means a live trap or something along that line, then you have to figure out how to attach him to the bush, then when you get that far he'll probably hang there as silently as a grave, and if he does make noise the coyote will have to be right on top of him to hear him, seeing that even a loud rabbit is pretty soft-voiced, and if he hollers you can bet that he'll shut up just about the time that a coyote appears on the scene and you want him to make noise.

Trust me when I tell you this: A varmint call is worlds better then the hanging rabbit routine. If you just have to have that sound, latch onto a rabbit and try to tape him for use in an electronic call, but be warned that the things that you have to do to the rabbit in order to get him to scream will make a strong man blanch.

I've heard them cry plenty of times when a dog grabs them and runs off to get away from the rest of the pack, but I've shaken, rattled and rolled them to try to make a tape, and they dummy up like a Mafia guy on trial.

Put on your camo, get a nice stand with a good field of fire, blow on the call, and coyotes will offer themselves for the sacrifice.

It's easier that way.

John-Henry

John-Henry:

I just found your web page and found it to be very good, there is a lot of information on it for the common varmint killer. I have called crows and foxes here in Kentucky for many years along with groundhogs and love it. I have not done much varmint hunting in the last several but have started getting after them this winter. We have not got many foxes or groundhogs around anymore due to the coyotes so I am starting to hunt them. Coyotes are all over the state now with growing numbers. I have only been two times so far with no luck as yet but will spend the rest of the winter hunting them until turkey season opens in the spring.

I have been shooting a 700 Remington chambered in .17 Rem for 20 years and love it. I have been reading where a lot of coyote hunters shoot them with good success so I am looking foward to dropping my first coyote this week. I would like to know what load you shoot as I did not see it on your page. Over the years I have worked up many different loads but have found following load to be the best. I hope it will help someone that is just getting hooked on the great little .17 Rem. My gun is a standard 700, I full floated the barrel and glass bedded the action. I get a 3/8" group at 100 yards.

Remington Brass necked sized only

Remington 7 1/2 BR primers

IMR 4320 @ 24.5 grains

25 grain Remington bullets

Approximately 4,000fps

Note: Case necks were turned to within .001 and the primer flash holes were drilled out slightly to standardize. (CAUTION SHOULD BE USED WHEN DRILLING OUT FLASH HOLES-- TOO LARGE OF A FLASH HOLE IS DANGEROUS)

Good Hunting

XXXX

Partner:

Thanks for the compliments.

Vic does most of our collective reloading, and right now he's running RL-15 behind a 22 gr. Berger (The last time that I called they were out of the jacket material they needed to manufacture the 25 gr.)

Interestingly enough, the 22 gr. bullets do not group nearly as well as the 25's, although we don't have the throttle down on them much at all.

Vic has a re-barreled Ruger, I have a re-barreled Sako (Both Douglas Premium Air-gauged, one in stainless and the other in carbon) and I have a "Tommy Gun" with a Bullberry barrel, and they all shoot the present load into about an inch for three rounds at 100 yds.

Of course, the coyotes can't tell the difference, but all three rifles cut that in half for five shot groups with the 25 gr. bullet.

Even though they seem to kill about the same on the other end, we are going back to the 25's as soon as we shoot up the 22's.

We also bought a box of 18 gr. bullets from Berger (Ross Seifried wrote an article once and mentioned that he was getting 4,700 fps from a friend's Sako with 18 grainers), but they won't stabilize in anything that we have.

I guess that we need to find someone with a .17/Hornet or something. :)

I'll forward your e-mail to Victor, and you and he can discuss loading the .17 Remington at greater length. Although I can tell you in great detail what has happened to several hundred coyotes since I started shooting the .17 Rem. at them, Vic is the guy that fools with those little tiny necks, and swears every time the powder bridges.

Take care, and Happy New Year

John-Henry

I just finished your web page. Great job.

It is nice to see someone who knows what he is talking about. I and my calling partner both shoot .17 Remingtons. Mine is a Model Seven and his is a BDL. We hear from many that these tiny rifles are too small for coyotes but all the dead coyotes would argue that point with them if they could.

XXXX

Partner:

Thanks for the kind words. You are right; we .17 Rem shooters are a wholly different breed from the armchair guys. When I re-barreled my Sako to .17 Rem I swore to Vic that I was not going to clean it until the accuracy went south, but it outlasted me, and after 350 rounds I ran a patch through the barrel.

Between Vic and I we've hammered literally hundreds of coyotes with the .17, and I can count on both hands the ones that we had to put a trail hound on. In every instance but one (I shot one squarely in the paunch, and didn't get anything vital at all) it was those old ball joints in the front or rear that stopped that little bullet dead, and no shrapnel made it into the chest cavity.

John-Henry

John-Henry:

I hear so much about how the bore fouls so quickly with a .17, how it can't take any wind and how max range is around 150 yards. It is fun to read and hear the opinions of those who don't have a clue. I clean mine a bit more often than you do though. Every hundred rounds or so it gets the works. Just because.

I have only had one coyote that it didn't put down right away. It was the strangest thing too. It was facing me at about eighty yards. I put the crosshairs dead on the center of the chest and squeezed. At the shot it took off running. I pounded again and took out a back leg. It got back up and my third shot took a front leg. My buddy finally got in on the action and finished the job with a shot to the neck. When we went to look at the critter the first shot had indeed went in the chest, clean through the animal and out his behind. About four inches of his rectum was hanging on the outside. Strange thing for the .17 but I swear it's true. I have no doubt that he would have died very soon but I have found that if the coyote shows signs of life after the first shot, take another. They are too tough not to try to put down right away.

I've only got one bone to pick with you about your web page. You mention that there is no such thing as a fifty pound coyote. I've got one on the wall that went 45 lbs. I saw one last year on the north Dakota/Montana border that was bigger. I guess I'll just have to shoot a fifty pounder this year to show you.:-)

Take care

XXXX

Partner:

Vic just bought a nifty electronic scale so that we could begin to weigh our coyotes. Here in S.E. AZ we get those old carcass-eating coyotes (usually bitches, for some reason) that have discovered how to work the wind for big dead meat instead of chasing rabbits and digging rats and whatnot, and some of them are heavy, all right.

When you strip the hide the loins are just larded with fat, and inside the body cavity the intestines are loaded too. I caught two great big long bodied bitches several years ago with steel traps that I suspect approached 50 lbs., but they were the two biggest-bodied coyotes that I've ever seen in these parts, in addition to being fat.

I understand that coyotes in the North country run larger (some, anyhow) and that the Eastern coyote sometimes resembles a small Woof, but down here a 35 lb. coyote is a pretty hefty animal.

Maybe I should upgrade my page to say 60 lbs. :)

With respect to the .17, that shot you made was some sort of a serious anomaly, all right. Vic just piled one yesterday with a frontal chest shot that came to a screeching halt at 20 yards or so when the Airedale went to it, and the bullet (a 22 gr. Berger) punched through the sternum, fragged and jellied everything forward of the diaphragm, and apparently vanished into microscopic li'l pieces of lead and copper jacket. You couldn't for the life of you tell where that coyote had been hit, but when I stripped the hide and opened the chest cavity it looked like a tiny grenade had gone off in there.

As far as the 150 yard mark goes, I've seen dozens of coyotes killed with the .17 Rem at 300+, and because of the speed the little bullet exhibits about the same amount of wind deflection as a heavier, slower .22 cal. Vic is hell for shooting at stuff in the next county (preferably running) and most generally when he hits one out there it goes tail over tin cups and lays in a heap.

I think that way too many people base their conclusions on what they've read over the years in the gun rags (mags), instead of getting out there and yanking on a trigger and seeing for themselves what happens.

But, what the hell, if everyone were as astute as we are, we'd have no reason to feel superior, right? :-)

Send me a picture of that 50 lb coyote when you kill him (and make sure that you keep both thumbs in front of you, and off of the scale)

John-Henry

I have read many of your posts and visited your website. Unlike so many on the web, I believe you know what you are talking about. I have a question for you if you have time to answer. But first, let me tell you about my situation.

I am 42 years old and have hunted all my life. I have tried on numerous occasions to call coyotes without any success. Even by a conservative estimate, I have tried probably 200-300 stands. I am a persistent old cuss. I have both mouth and electronic calls with the cottontail, fawn distress call and even some bird sounds that were supposed to be effective. I know some coyotes are in the area because I see them when I am deer hunting and hear them occasionally at night in the area that I hunt. I also use full camo and follow many of the other suggestions that I have read about over the past 20 years. The area is made up of rolling hills with pine and mixed hardwood forests with areas of larger fields.

The coyotes are not call shy because noboby calls them in this area. Do you have any suggestions.

Thanks

I read your e-mail with interest, as it has always seemed to me that fellas who throw away the call in disgust are simply people with little patience; they call for a time, or three, or ten, and decide that this stuff just does not work.

I can't imagine making hundreds of stands and NEVER calling a coyote. Even when I was green as grass, I'd manage to roll a coyote in now and again, and I had just about everything wrong.

So, let's run down a little list here.

1) Coyotes come to distress sounds, and it doesn't much matter what they are. Rabbits, birds, chickens, anything that makes a racket draws a coyote.

2) Wet, cool weather with little or no breeze is the best weather to call, unless you are in the far north country, where it doesn't get wet in the wintertime. First light is best; late evening second-best, but you can call coyotes all day long in advance of a storm front when they are feeding up, and retarded ones can show up at midday under a blazing sun.

3) Proximity is THE most important thing. You gotta be on a coyote to call a coyote.

Have you ever called ANYTHING when you make a stand? I mean dogs, cows, deer, 'coons, anything? The only reason that I ask is that there could be something horrifically wrong with the sound of your call(s), although I've never heard of that before. Where are you, anyhow? Most of my experience is in the desert country here on the Mexican border, but I've called various stuff hither and yon around the country.

Call down low, on the edge of a field somewhere, where you can see. Better yet, find an area where you know that coyotes are laying up or hunting or moving through (tracks, scat, sightings, howling are good things to look for to find that area) and make a custom tape for your electronic caller. Take the longest cassette tape that you can find and dub your half-hour tape onto it several times. Leave 10 or 15 minutes blank at the beginning.

Find an area of open woods with little brush, where you can see a ways between the trees. If it borders on some open fields or farm country, so much the better (coyotes spend lots of time hunting ground birds, mice, moles, etc) Find a good tree, and park your self-climbing stand at the bottom, then go brush up the call under something and turn it on. Don't use too much volume. A coyote hears better then you do, (Lots better, I think) and you don't want to blow him out.

Climb up that tree, settle in, pull a paperback out of your pocket if you're a reading man, and let your ears watch. You ought to be able to hear a coyote coming a long ways off in the dry leaves. Keep one eye on the fields (the grass is a lot quieter) and let that tape run dry, unless something happens before it does.

If you are a deer hunter, you can see what I'm getting at here. If you customarily hunt from stands, you ought to know where a few of them are already that you can use this way. Try 10 stands with this technique, and if it doesn't work, and you don't call anything (coyote, fox, bobcat, deer, 'coon, whatever) write back to me. If you do call something, write back to me as well, and I'll join you in a toast.

Like any other religion, the creed of the Coyote Gods has certain fundamentals. One of the first is this: Coyotes come to calls. If that does not hold true, the whole thing collapses.

Good luck to you, and let me know what happens.

John-Henry

John-Henry:

Tried your suggestion on making a tape. I used a 90 minute cassette and recorded several 8-10 segments of calling with varying length of pauses. I also climbed up in my deerstand with full camo so I would have a better view.

After about an hour of intermittent calling with the tape running all the time, a lone male coyote came within 50 yards of my stand. He came in very cautious but not cautious enough. A 55 grain v-max dropped him dead in his tracks. I thought I had tried everything possible but your suggestions gave me some new ideas that worked on the second try.

Unbelievable! Thanks for sharing your experience in calling coyotes with me.

XXXX

John-Henry & Vic,

Can you please, please briefly discuss how to skin a coyote? I really will buy one of the "2 min coyote" videos if I see that I can actually call a coyote close enough to shoot. But in the mean time, if I kill one, what should I do with it?

You also mention other parts. What about them and what to do with them? This sounds like something I could love doing - especially if I could pay for the bad habit by selling the hides. This would also justify the cost of a good rifle to do it with. And save many arguments with the wife.

Hurry, I'm way excited.

XXXX

O.K., Partner:

When you kill the old coyote, take him home and find something to hang him from. This can be a tree branch, A-frame, garage crossbeam, whatever. A couple of "S" hooks on the ends of ropes are nice, as is a skinning gambrel, but not a must.

Take a pointed knife and slit the skin behind both achilles tendons in the hind legs and run your hooks through, or slide a rope with a loop tied in the end through and throw the loop back over the hind foot to lock it in place. Now the coyote should be hanging head down, with his hind legs spread at about a 30 or so degree angle.

Now take a sharp knife and cut completely around both ankles. Be careful not to cut the tendons that he's hanging from, or he'll fall down and make you swear. If you do cut the tendons (Murphy was also a coyote skinner) use baling wire to hang him, wrapped tightly around the foot just behind the pad.

Now look at the back of the hind leg, toward the belly side, and notice where the long hair on the back of the leg (the "chaps") gives way to shorter hair. There is a pretty clear line there. Slide the knife point down that line all the way to the anus on both legs. Cut around the anus to free the hide from that particular portion of his anatomy. With the knife point, slit the underside of the tail toward the tip. You won't be able to get all the way to the tip, but go as far as you can without fighting it too much.

Now pull and work the hide down off of the hind legs. Use your knife (carefully) on the membrane that connects the hide to the flesh when you have to, but muscle it as much as you can until the legs are exposed. Work your fingers under the hide on the belly up near the groin, and when you can stick a finger all the way through, cut that hide there, leaving a piece of hide up between the legs, where the testicles are on a male, or the vagina on a female. This piece isn't worth fooling with, and it makes the job a lot easier.

Now carefully begin to pull the tail free from the bone, keeping your fingers as close to the bone as possible to avoid tearing the tail, or pulling it in half. Some people use notched sticks to strip the tail, and two Phillips screwdrivers with grooved handles work really well. Lay the shafts into the grooves, with a handle in each hand, and pull. You have to fool with the first 3"-4" inches of tail, and then the rest will strip out rather easily. When you pull the bone free, stick the tip of the knife into the tube in the tail where the bone was and split it up to the tip. That will let it dry, and keep it from souring and making the hair fall out.

Rest.

Now, before you go any farther, take your knife and circle the wrists on the forelegs. Then slit both forelegs up past the elbows on the back side of the leg. Make sure that you push the slit over the elbows.

Now go back to the hind legs, and pull the hide down like you would a sock, turning it inside out as you go, and working it off with your hands and (carefully) the knife when you need it. It'll come pretty easily until you get over the brisket, and then it starts to get REALLY tough. Slide both forelegs out of the hide (That's why you slit them first, or it's almost impossible.) Persevere, though, and with a little elbow grease you'll get to the head sooner or later. When the hide slides over the top of the skull and down toward the nose, you'll see the cartilege of the ears. Cut through both ears near the base. Continue down, and feel around for the eyes and the corners of the mouth. Cut through at both places, trying to get the black eyelids with the skin. Work the hide down off the jaws, pulling and using your knife when you have to, and finally cut off the nose from the inside, as close to the end as you can get.

Turn the hide fur-side out and hose it throughly with cold water to wash off any blood that may have gotten on the fur. If you leave it for too long, it'll stain the fur. Turn the hide flesh-side out, and run it over a 2"x6" or so with a bevel cut on one end to fit the head (like an ironing board) DO NOT try to use your wife's ironing board. Use a dull knife and scrape off the excess meat and fat that may be attached to the hide, but be careful not to tear through. Get most of the meat, and all of the fat, or as much as you can, or it'll sour the hide and make the hair fall out. (Not good).

Now take some stiff wire (#9 wire is great) and make a frame that will go inside the hide and "stretch" it. You can use a couple of curved pieces of wood with a leather hinge at the top (the end that goes inside the head) as well. There doesn't have to be a lot of tension, but get it spread into a long, narrow triangle. Just follow the contour of the hide. You'll see how it works when you try it. Hang the hide with the frame inside from something until the flesh side starts to resemble parchment. Out here in the desert several hours will do it sometimes, and it should not take more then a day or so no matter where you are. Don't let it get too dry, because you have to turn it fur side out. If you leave it too long and it does get too dry, soak it with a hose, or dump it in a horse trough, and try again.

Now turn the hide fur side out, and slide your frame in again. Put a spacer inside the hide to let the air circulate (a wooden paint stirrer is about right, on edge.) Let it hang around a couple of days to dry completely, and you're done. You ought to have a flat, dry hide, like something you might see when a coyote has been in the middle of the Interstate for a while.

Put it somewhere where it can lay flat, throw a few moth balls in and on it to discourage the buggies, and you've got it.

Some people shampoo the hides before they stretch them, some comb them out afterwards, etc. to get a few pennies more from the buyer.

Clip the claws off the carcass with a pair of dykes or bull-nose pliers and hang on to them. Cut the head off and put it somewhere out of the way to let the bugs clean it, or bury it under a few inches of dirt, or put a box over it. Some people boil their skulls with lye or bleach to remove the meat and whiten the bone.

That's about it. Jewelery makers will sometimes give a dime or a quarter apiece for the claws to use in Indian or Mountain Man type jewelry, lots of people will give 10-25 dollars for a nice clean skull to use a paperweight or whatever, and the hide is worth a few dollars in today's depressed fur market. Check out some taxidermy supply places and find some tanning creme and tan it yourself, and you may make another 25-50 bucks, depending on how bad someone wants the hide to hang over the back of a chair or on the wall. If you know that you want to try the tanning creme yourself, don't turn the hide hair-out when you stretch it.

I hope you can make some kind of sense out of this. Try one or two, figure out what works and what doesn't, and drop me another e-mail if you have trouble.

Good luck, good hunting, and welcome to the club.

John-Henry

12-15-97 02:40 PM

I enjoyed the web page. What advice would you offer on skinning to a first time hunter you mentioned something about a VIDEO.

Many deer hunting camps in Mich. are complaining about coyotes and are letting people on their land to kill them. I have a .223 Rem. what bullets would you advise.

XXXX

Hey, Partner:

The video is available from Finley Furs, and the address is on the Web page. You skin a coyote "cased", that is, you cut down the insides of both hind legs to the anus, peel the tail, and then take the hide off inside out in a "case" or "tube".

The problem with a coyote is that the hides are on to stay, and HARD to get off, so if you are skinning more than one every once in a while, you start looking for an easier way, and Finley's tape shows you one.

As far as the .223, I'm hearing good things about the 40 gr. Nosler ballistic tip if you reload. Here is an excerpt from an e-mail I received the other day:

"My last 8 coyotes were instant kills at ranges from 25 yards to 300+/- with 40 grain balistic tips in a 223 at 3650 mv. (27.5 gr H335). NOT ONE BULLET EXITED. I'm pleased and yet surprised that the chats all discourage if not totally ignore the 40g baltip."

I have not tried this load personally yet, but a buddy of mine who shoots a .223 is coming to hunt with me on Jan. 4, so I'll let you know what kind of results we have. Bullet selection is much less important then bullet placement, as far as simply killing the coyote goes. Stick him in the center of the chest if he's facing you, or behind the shoulder if he's standing parallel, and he'll be a dead coyote in just a little while.

Hope this helps you. Good luck, and Good hunting.

John-Henry

So you didn't say anything about handgun caliber......everybody says I'm crazy for carrying a .357 Rem. Mag. as I deer hunt with a long gun. When I get the chance [haven't yet] I've gotta prove it ain't deadly on deer out to 45-50 yards. Just won't believe otherwise.......So would you say the same for coyotes? What do y'all use?

XXXX

Partner:

If you damage the lungs on a coyote, that coyote is going to die, period. Vic and I have a copy of a Varmint Hunting magazine around the place where an author talks about shooting a coyote on hardpan with a .243. The coyote runs at the shot, and the writer says,

"I found the spot where the coyote had been standing, and there was a spray of blood and pieces of lung tissue on the ground, but the coyote was never recovered."

That is some kind of fantasy, pure and simple. Blood circulates through the lungs to be oxygenated, and when there is a rip, tear, hole, or rupture in the lung tissue the blood runs out into the chest cavity. Enough blood in the chest and the heart action is congested, not to mention sooner or later there is nothing for the heart to pump. No blood to the muscles, no oxygen to the system, and at that point things lay down and don't get up any more.

Coyotes, people, elephants, blue whales, it doesn't matter. Anything that breathes oxygen with a lung, and pumps blood with a heart obeys the same rules.

So what does all of this mean? It means that a .357 will kill a deer, or a coyote. I have a shelf full of handguns in the safe, and one of my favorite "little" guns to carry is a 2" Ruger SP101 that has been customized by Jack Weigland (his "Tame the Beast" conversion, with hybra-porting, Houge grips, smoothed action, bobbed hammer, etc.) In a Galco holster behind the hip you sometimes forget that the little gun is there, but I can promise you that if you need it, it's plenty.

Because I trap as well as call, I've had the opportunity to shoot many, many coyotes with handguns of various calibers, and a 125 gr. jacketed hollowpoint in the shoulder will crumple a coyote up in short order. They shoot completely through, and if you used dogs to trail that coyote in a drag trap you have to be careful about your shot so nothing is in the way on the far side.

I've also killed a few deer with the same load in the same gun, and had the same result. They may run off for a ways, but they go nowhere but down within a couple of hundred yards, if they make it that far.

I have big stuff that I carry when I'm running my dogs and there is a chance that we'll get into a bear (A .454 mag-na-ported Casull is my current favorite) but you surely don't need that much gun for thin-skinned game.

Vic is a fiend for hunting our little Coues whitetails down here. Those deer go 100-120 lbs for a great big buck, and they are often taken at ranges of several hundred yards, and I don't know how many Victor has killed with a .223 and 55 gr. softpoints. He uses a .243 these days, and he'll be the first to tell you that the little rifle demands that you put that bullet behind the shoulder into the lungs if you want to be extra safe, but I agree with him 100% when he says,

"What is there, an inch of skin and bone and rib to punch through, and then the lungs? How much rifle do you need to do that?"

So now you know what we think, anyhow.

Take care, and good hunting

John-Henry

Guys, like your page! In the past, I called and killed a few coyotes with my Johnny Stewart player, and rabbit tape. I haven't hunted in the past couple of years, too much competition. But I am planning on trying it again.

Can you give me some advice on volume control/time sequences, etc. with the electronic call and a mouth call?

I'm hunting in Ga., and the hunting is much different from your area, I'm sure!

I appreciate any help and suggestions. Thanks...

XXXX

Partner:

Most tapes that you get for an electronic call are recorded with no breaks, and that's the way that we use them. If you set up on a coyote that is close by, he'll come running (usually) in the first few minutes, and if that doesn't happen, the tape can play away until something comes within earshot.

The Burnham Bros., down TX way, call continuously with a mouth call, and I agree with them (If you don't run out of air). Some mouth callers make much of sequencing and pausing and waiting and whatnot, on the theory that the animal coming in is wary, sneaky, and hunting the sound, but that has not been our experience.

Here in the desert it's hungry country, and the coyotes usually come on a beeline at a high rate of speed, trying to be the first to get the free lunch. I've watched fellas call and wait, and it looks to me like that coyote is coming slowly, all right, and working the wind, but I think that is only because he's trying to figure out where the hell that rabbit is that he heard a few minutes ago.

There are plenty of callers who would turn purple at this suggestion, but I believe it.

So, what I'm saying is this: If you have an electronic call, let it play until the end of the tape. Use as little volume as you can stand. Sound usually carries a long way, and coyotes have hyper-sensitive ears. If you are using a mouth call, blow it until you get dizzy, and as soon as the spots clear away from your eyes, blow some more.

John-Henry

YES! I love your page! I found a link, at Varmit Al's page, and so I hopped over, and damn! I really like the teaching pigs to sing!

No, really great page.

Here is my question. I shoot a 243, I hunt deer with this rifle, and unfortunately I can't afford a 17, or 22-250 for coyotes, and so I will be shooting them with the 243. What bullet would you recommend? (I will be selling the pelts).

Well, good luck with you coyote hunting, and thanks for giving the coyotes the credit they deserve, all to many people go out, and smoke a coyote at 300 yards, while deer hunting, then they think that they are brain dead.(But I know they ain't)

XXXX

Pardner:

I've got a buddy in Phoenix who is fooling with some of the new ballistic tip 55 gr. .243 bullets in a little Ruger Mark II. I expect him to be down here to call on or about Jan. 9th, so I'll let you know what happens when one of those intersects a coyote.

I would guess that is going to be about as good as it gets for the .243 as far as fur is concerned, but if I were you I would have some thread handy. You'll probably need it before the end.

John-Henry

Thanks to both of you for your page and all the information. Your stuff comes right out of the top drawer - I agree with it all (especially your comments for the hunters that don't skin what they take). Like you say in your intro, nothing to do with coyotes is graven in stone.

I have called in your country (Tombstone way) and found it alot brushier than northern Alberta where I live. I call mainly pastures and grain fields. I used to sit up and use a set of shooting sticks but the last 3 years I've done 90% of my calling on my belly with a bipod. I've gradually come to lay down in shorter and shorter cover to the point now that I will lay down anywhere I think I can see to shoot and have alot more success than you'd ever imagine. I don't know how many coyotes I've called laying in 4 inches of grain stubble. I can rotate myself around 90 degrees with the rifle while the coyote is staring at me from 150 yds - he doesn't know what I am but he's not so spooked that he runs off. What's the bonus? (HINT: how many coyotes do you think you would miss off your belly with a bipod?) Well the answer is - not too many. (I have had a short run lately where I haven't been able to get them to stop - not for multiple whistles or barks - they want that rabbit too bad! It's maddening when they won't play by the rules - but that's why we lov'em so!)

Anyway, keep up the good work - I'll keep checking in - looking forward to that video.

Partner:

Sounds like you have a technique that works in your neck of the world, all right. I think that you are right; a coyote sees you, all right, but not in the position that he's accustomed to, and not moving, and by the time he starts to put it all together he a little too late.

I'm leery of calling prone down here, except in certain (very limited) circumstances, because here the coyote almost invariably comes out of the mesquite on the fenceline, slides under the barbed wire, and trots down the fence looking out into the open field until he gets ten feet or so away from your shoulder, at which time he looks you over, sneers at your rifle and bipod pointing away from him at a 90 degree angle, grins a coyote grin and goes under the fence and back into the mesquite while you damage major muscle groups beyond repair trying to tuck, roll, drag the rifle around and shoot all at the same time.

Thank you kindly for the compliments on the page, and if you head down thisaway for a little sunshine and warmth drop us a line and we'll go see about killing a coyote or two. If you don't want to haul a rifle, we've got extras.

Take care

John-Henry

Hi John-Henry:

Your comments re: coyotes coming down the fenceline while you are prone couldn't have been more timely since I had exactly that experience the past weekend. I was calling across a clearing where the coyotes normally have come out of the willows straight across from me for some routine 150 to 200 yds shots. This time they came from my right along the edge of the trees and stood looking at the "rabbit" from 20 yds out - then cut back into the trees behind me to catch the breeze.

By the time the second one showed up I could see this wasn't a fluke and got hitched around enough to get number 3 in the scope. If I hadn't been laying down I would have fallen down from surprise when he didn't go down but I noticed I had made a nice hole in a tree root about 6 inches from the barrel ( I recommend the 17 Rem with 30 gr bergers for tree roots).

I lay for another 10 minutes squeaking on a rodent squeaker and finally put down #4 and couldn't get #5 far enough out of the bush for a decent shot. Some more lessons learned - but unfortunately, 4 more coyotes educated.

I leave them for a month an howl them up in the middle of Jan. Thanks for the invitation - I will surely look you guys up if I get down in that neck of the woods. I'm off to west Texas and Oklahoma in the first week of Jan to thin out the coyotes and cats there.

Good luck,

XXXX